Latest upgrade seems to have been created in a vacuum

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Gene, I agree with all you said regarding alternatives. they are very useful.
I have schedules for above ground long and short, below ground same. Germination x 2 as well. 6 - 8 different ones.

However, removing the ability to adjust stations at quick start, and removing quick start from where you adjust stations, is a Significant oversight and step backwards. I’m sure I’m not the only one finding this needlessly reduced functionality problematic and frustrating. That qualifies as app malpractice in my view.

The value of Rachio’s system above others, and others to come, has been and is the functionality and usability.

My critique of the home page remains as well. Users who want data are most likely to be sitting at a desk Or on their couch. A few extra clicks is a non issue. But Data currently holds prime real estate on the home page - where quick single click functionality upon opening the app would be ideal.

Rachio, if your reading this, pass it around. The app is often used outside, with dirty wet hands on people’s phone. Single touch commands are an enormous plus. Your team must be aware. The app Design should reflect that - and for users that want to adjust programs prior to when they manually run them - you have turned it frustratingly into a ten click event. Not good.

Thanks.
-CM

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@charlieman22 Always appreciate and looking for respectful feedback, I’ll be sure the product team receives this.

:cheers:

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This was me last weekend and several times on my phone (Android P2) the stop button from a quick run was blocked by the home row… there I am standing in the middle of the grass and can’t turn it off… yes the bug has been reported here

For me, I find the wi-fi ability to turn on/off valves to be it’s best and about the only feature that interests me, there is no set it and forget it… weekly I have to tweak it b/c my yard is full of mixed heads, pipe sizes, run lengths on 3/4 acre which I won’t tear up to start over and I don’t want 20 stations…

YMMV

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@franz, thank you!
People communicate here because you guys have a loyal following.
You were the first and the best.

My $.02 if you want to add to my prior notes in a consolidated manner:
Data belongs on a tab labeled Data. Items that will be read on the couch or desk belong on their own Data tab - not on the start up/home screen. Use of home page real estate for this and “lawn smarts” is super inefficient.

Home page ideal: All business of fast action. Remember - we are often getting soaked, phone has timed out and is off, and amount of time to get a function activated is critical.

Some Specifics: 9 out of 10 times when we do open the app, it is to execute either a zone or schedule. With that in mind - look at the home page currently. Its filled with non essentials - and does not reflect what the app is being most used for by your customers. Not good. Instead, top 3 or 4 used schedules with a global time adjust slide (or +/-) and a start stop button would be phenomenal. An edit button that takes you to the schedules tab if it is fine tuning that is required would be enough - but basic on off and global adjust need to be on home page at min.

Below the schedule section on home page, a list of zones (no pictures) with +/- and start/stop would then make the home page have 90% of the functionality of the items that are 90% of what the app is being opened for. Challenge to your programers: How many customers do they think they have uploaded pictures for their zones? Im not saying its not a nice feature - or never used - but I am going to put that at 10-15% max. Meaning - its nice for the zone page - but not required for the home page, and certainly not in large scale. List them. We all know our zones pretty well - and a simple ability to label and perhaps a small image would be sufficient.

A. If I can start a zone or schedule on/off, I need a means to edit it on the same screen.
B. If I can edit a zone or schedule, I need a means to start it.

Thats because most of the time A occurs with B, or B occurs with A. My prior note outlined the 10 clicks of total frustration to get from one to the other currently… So on that home page - the schedule should have a label, a global +/-, a start/stop button, and an edit button - that would take you to the edit screen for that schedule for single zone alteration.

Doesn’t need to be crowded or ugly. Time spent making it elegant would be time well spent in my view - but if anyone on your team believes this is not what the app is being used for - and people are going to the app for lawn care maintenance tips - I challenge that. We do that on our couch or desk with the internet - so please stop filling the home page with it at the cost of maximizing functionality controls.

Thanks for listening.
-CM

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@charlieman22 Thanks again for this feedback. We never promise anything in regards to delivering requested features, obviously there are many variables at hand that customers are not able to see in how our team makes product decisions, but we very much enjoy and Thrive (ha!) on product feedback. Will definitely relay this feedback as well to the product team. Have a great weekend.

:cheers:

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Guess I don’t follow the issues you have with manual runs. I can run any of my zones within 3-4 button presses (depending on number of zones I’m trying to run). Zero reason to go to the calendar and mess with that for a quick run.

No product or software will ever please EVERY person. I personally think the Rachio app is one of the most intuitive IoT devices I have, but everyone will have their own opinion on that I guess.

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I’m confused at your meaning of adjusting stations. Are you talking about a zone? If I want to do something with a zone, I just go to zones, and then do quick runs from each individual zone. (which works well on an iphone). Or are you trying to adjust zones within a schedule?

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Hi Tmc: The issue is not running a zone. The issue is running a “schedule” (in layman’s term, a program of zones). Up until this “upgrade” of the app, you could modify the schedule by zone or simply all zones at once, and do a quick start, from a single screen. This feature was removed - and now to do both it requires 10 clicks. Step backwards. Step forward would have been to bring that functionality to the home screen in place of non “used in the field” essential elements they have there now.

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Hi Linn - the issue is, if I have a schedule (a group of zones programmed together) and I want to modify its length of total run evenly with a global +/- button, or perhaps run it but without one zone, that say has a broken sprinkler, I now have to click 10 times to accomplish. That’s not good. It used to be on a single screen as there was a quick start button on the same screen I could modify the zone timing on.

It is all about the clicks.
With each iteration of the app, that should become more efficient.
Priority should go to “in the field” commands on the home screen.
Data is terrific but that and advertisements for product and how to’s don’t belong on home screen real estate.

To clarify you question - Yes - I can go and run zones - but what if I want one zone not to run from an existing schedule? Creating a whole new schedule, or manually running each zone after the last one, or having to click 10 times to execute a single zone not running in a schedule, are all brutally inefficient solutions.

Removal of fast start button from schedule editing screen was a step backwards.

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Franz. That makes sense. Of course! However - in this case we are largely talking about functionality that was removed - rather than request for new features. My comments on optimizing home screen were intended as you say - to provide useful feedback for the team to consider. My challenge to them would still be -

  1. Do they think I am wrong about what holds the most value to your customers as a goal to design to for the home screen (quick action functionality)
  2. Do they believe they have optimized the home screen for that.

If the answer is yes to #1 - then no point in proceeding. Im simply off base.
But if they agree with my point on #1, how well do they think the new design delivers on optimizing for that?

:slightly_smiling_face:.

I think its a fair challenge.
How they solve for it is the magic that you guys bring.
Best,
-CM

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Trust me @charlieman22, you don’t have to put things in layman’s terms for me. :joy: :rofl: :crazy_face:

I could argue the contrary. Rachio is first and foremost, a smart ML (in layman’s terms, that is Machine Leaning, learns as it goes :wink:) product that can run itself with little human interaction, not a remote controlled sprinkler system. IMHO of course…

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@tmcgahey May I request that you cite your source as to show that Rachio incorporates ML in its current firmware? I could not find any mention of ML in any marketing or spec document anywhere.

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@rent, here you go!

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We have a lot more impactful ML on the upcoming roadmap as well :wink:

:cheers:

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Gents,
Just to be clear, my “schedule” in parenthesis was a reference to my misuse of terminology in my prior post - which had been called out. I was the “layman” being referred to in parenthesis. :slightly_smiling_face:. Nothing intended by it.

As for ML:

  1. I wasn’t sure what ML stood for. Seriously. (I would have had to look it up if you hadn’t defined.) Caused a chuckle.
  2. Because I assume that Rachio is collecting data from users. Data like… how they change their systems and when! Functionality and ML are inextricably linked.

It seams to me that ML is complimentary to my input on functionality - and that ML is certainly not mutually exclusive to great functionality.
Why have any remote controls on the APP at all if its purpose is just ML.
Think it is safe to say, the remote settings and operation features are central to the product - and I believe Rachio thinks that too.

None of my critique or suggestions would affect ML - but they might speed Rachio’s learning through improved quality of data on behaviors.

In my view (with apologies to Franz who bravely reads all this) the marketing department has fallen a little too much in love with the outcome of the good functionality. They tout the outcome - water savings - with messages/images on the home page - but they do so at the cost of delivering better outcomes by using prime real estate.

Does anyone really believe that how much water used last month, having information on roots, or knowing when to overseed, should trump a set of killer simple controls that pop up as soon as you open the app? 'Cause that’s how they have it currently - and it came with a reduction in functionality as I documented.

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[quote=“charlieman22, post:1, topic:25098”]
note
[/quote]could not agree more! The goal should be simplicity to perform and that usually means reduced keystrokes. It almost never means more keystrokes. Well stated!

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@franz @tmcgahey Thank you both re: ML. In the interest of not hijacking this thread, I’ll comment on ML in the Launching Smart Zone Settings ⚙️ thread instead.

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I would disagree. First and foremost, any irrigation controller, Rachio included, is just that, a controller for irrigation. As a controller for anything, it has to be intuitive and efficient for its users. ML is amazing at the repetitive things, and it can “learn” to control these with changing outside forces. What is a long way off is predicting what the real users, the owners, will want to do with their systems in every edge case. And most of those edge cases are really so edgy. I believe @charlieman22 has done a great job identifying many of those cases, and I’ve encounter these and more as well. Not one of them is easily adapted into a ML scenario and likely to have to remain manual for some time to come if not forever.

If you agree there are at least several occasions when manual intervention is needed, then you hopefully also agree that any manual process should be as intuitive and efficient as is possible. That pretty much was the case, now not so much. Whatever the internal rationale, there should be respect for both the automated and the manual needs of the system. ML will only improve the automated which is already quite advanced, now the manual needs to achieve that efficiency of steps that is the heart of this thread…I think.

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Ok, I’m a newbe with the Rachio system and I’m also not a tech but I have to say the Charlieman22 has “NAILED IT”. All I want is set up my zones, be able to manual ON/OFF as needed and “trust” my system to watch the local weather and water as needed while I’m gone for a few weeks. I REALLY don’t care about all the other BS “features” just give me a kick ass simple watering system like I thought I was buying.

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