It would be really nice to integrate the data of when my sprinklers run with the flume data. Flume has trouble telling me when there is something actually wrong because I have a very large yard. When the sprinklers run they can draw anywhere up to 29 gallons per minute. The drip can be way down to two or three gallons per minute. This can go on for 8 hours into the evening… There is no way to know whether this is correct or incorrect. If Rachio could provide an integration with Flume so when a particular sprinkler is running a profile exist to tell you something is wrong…
Yeah, I think B-hyve does it. Seems like a high priority feature to me for Rachio to stay competitive.
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Yes you are right this is what I was hoping Rachio would support soon:
Real-Time Monitoring & Leak Detection:** B-hyve and Flume work together to provide you with water usage reporting, highlighting abnormal flow rates, preventing overwatering or possible leaks in broken sprinkler lines or heads saving you money on your water bill.
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+1 Flumes personal API works great for querying water usage by arbitrary intervals (minute, 5 minutes, 10 minute, hour).
Rachio knows when the zones run, and generally between late at night and early morning this is the only water usage. I would love to see Rachio poll this data, tell me usage per-zone, alert me if usage/flow rate changes per zone, etc.
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B-Hyve does integrate Flume. I had one previously but switched to Rachio thinking I’d be upgrading…. Now my Flume is worthless. Extremely disappointing. Rachio should really integrate flume.
With all due respect, current Flume design is outdated and would soon not work with majority of the water service providers. Issue is that it relies on the old style flow meters, with a physical rotating sensor which Flume reads. New designs which are increasingly replacing the old meters, because they are able to wirelessly upload usage data with a 10 year battery life, are using ultrasonics to measure flow much more accurately at low flow rates (utilities like to charge you for the leaks) and thus lack the physical sensor the flume relies on. If your provider has not switched yet, it’s likely on their budget to do so soon.
I’m not a Rachio employee, so don’t take this as a reason why they should, or should not, work on this integration. I would simply like others to keep obsolescence in mind when deciding on which leak / flow detection system to buy.
Personally, I’m using a 1004-EX irrigation flow meter, dedicated to Rachio, and happy to do so as it allows the controller to actually shut off operation within the first minute by detecting abnormal readings in real-time. I also have a Phyn Plus monitoring my home and doing a nightly tests to detect even a slowly leaking spigot or a misbehaving toilet. Yes, these solutions are harder to install than Flume, but since our meters are already upgraded, flume was not even an option.
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@Gene: As I understand it, are the following correct?
- Flume uses a sensor that attaches to a meter, sensing the electromagnetic rotation of the meter. Newer meters are electronic without the electromagnetic rotation (ultrasonic). This sensor is easy to install, but it does not work with every meter and is not terribly accurate.
- Sure Flow requires it to be put in-line (cut the pipe). It works off a paddle. Seems like it would be pretty accurate with its moving paddle, but it seems like it could get the water needs to be clean otherwise stuff would get stuck affecting operation.
- EveryDrop (such as your 1004-EX) requires it to be put in-line (cut the pipe). It works on a vortex and is rather accurate. I am guessing this does not have moving parts and accurate. Of these three, seems to be the best.
I would like to get them at some time, one for irrigation and the other for the rest of the house . . . both good ones, but not terribly expensive. Phyn (water) looks interesting, kind of similar to Sense (electricity) . . . kind of pricy though.
I just found a cool page that talks about the different types, not brands. I think they call the paddle type a turbine.
Comparing Flowmeters (engineeringtoolbox.com)
You are correct on #1; it may not be accurate enough to detect pin leaks in your wall or a dripping faucet, but would account for anything you are charged for.
Don’t know about the specific sensor you’re referring to for #2, but anything with a paddle is designed for a higher flow detections, good to find a burst pipe in irrigation system, but would not prevent mold damage in your house due to a slow drip somewhere (not that those are easy to find even if you know about them).
Wired flow meters are great for irrigation. Had a wireless version prior to wired and its great to not worry about batteries anymore. Display on this meter is also a convenient way to doublecheck that readings are accurate.
I got my phyn from costco a few years back, they had it on a good discount for a black friday sale, agree that its pricey otherwise. Anything that is capable of turning off the water nightly and use a pressure sensor to check for small leaks should work well for a long term protection and a peace of mind.
Here is how a normal test looks like:
And here is if something is leaking:
Small pressure drop is expected due to water cooling in the water heater for example
FWIW I recently had my water meter replaced with a smart meter - Allegro AMI from Master Meter, and Flume sensor still works.
Interesting, online they indicate that Allegro is a solidstate meter with no moving parts, meaning that there should not be a similar magnetic field for flume to read. Have you verified the acuracy of the measurements? For example meter measurement increase over a day, compared to measurement from flume.
Arg, sorry for delay in responding, I didn’t get a notification of your post. I originally tested it by filling a 1 gallon water container and Flume showed 0.6 gallons consumed. I contacted Flume support via their chat (they are VERY responsive BTW) and they asked for a picture of the brass coupling on the meter to see what size it was. I sent them that, they said they made an adjustment on their end and now filing the same 1 gallon water container, it shows 1 gallon consumed. I’ll check and see how this ties in with the water company data going forward.
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I also would like Flume support. My Flume works great, and the Rachio gallons used is very inaccurate. Having the Rachio know what time it started and syncing with Flume, would allow me to truly understand how much water I’m using (and it should be able to feed back to Rachio, so it could further adjust schedule based on actual water usage).
Rachio doesn’t currently use the volumetric readings for your schedule adjustments, so integration you are looking for would not result in the benefit you are seeking.
In other words Rachio needs to know what kind of sprinklers you are using, so it could calculate how long to run the zone in order to replenish the moisture levels. That being said, weather your zone uses 10 gallons, or a 100; does not feedback into calculations, even if it may be used for the reports.
Rachio is primarily interested in real-time flow rate to detect issues like valve failure, blocked sprinkler heads and pipe rapture and there are two main issues with a 3rd party integration with products like flume before it would be a viable option.
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Availability offline. Rachio controller is designed to continue running even without internet connection. Cloud integration is not.
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Whole house readings from the main meter necessitates additional logic to account for non-irrigation use; how would you determine accurately that a gallon measured was used for irrigation and not for laundry for example.
Finally, specifically in case of Flume; main meters are increasingly moving away from mechanical means of measurement; Using more accurate ultrasonic, electromagnetic, and pressure measurements. This means that Flume will increasingly work with fewer and fewer meters unless and until they release their own meter.
For best results, you’ll want to install a dedicated flow meter for your irrigation controller. This way it will continue protecting your irrigation system offline as well as provide real time, dedicated data that your controller could use to the fullest.
I have home assistant with the rachio and flume integration. Might be some JSON wizardry I can figure out through automation or node red. Again why Rachio doesnt do this is already.
I keep getting notifications about this tread, since I’ve participated previously, but this is perhaps the last time I reply here (turning off notifications for this tread from hereon). Again, I’m not a Rachio employee, so don’t take this as defending one side or another, but as a developer these are some issues that would prevent integration from Rachio side:
- No webhook support as far as I know. Webhooks are used to send out notifications without querying for new data. API limits means that getting near realtime flow data from flume would exhaust resources and/or provide subpar performance.
- Flume does not provide any soft of identification for flow data within API. Meaning that Rachio would not be able to differentiate between irrigation usage and a washing machine in case both are running at the same time (as an example)
- Expected advantage is too limited. Reporting a whole house consumption on irrigation report is of little use, meanwhile flagging a zone as leaking while someone is taking a shower would prove frustrating and would likely lead to integration being discontinued.
Frankly, you guys are asking a wrong side of the equation. You are much better off reaching out to flume to have them integrate with Rachio from their side. With your API key, they could quickly setup webhook notifications of when and which zone is running and add irrigation usage to their app / reports. Again, even they would not be able to guarantee that usage during irrigation was wholly consumed by Rachio, but at least they would make their customers happy with much less effort that it would take for Rachio to find something useful (and importantly possible & reliable) to do with flume data.
Just to bump this back in to visibility I too would like this. I have been doing some comparisons using the everydrop flow meter and it is not at all accurate. I have been reading situations where it reads high and some low. up to a 20% error in either direction. Mine happens to read low. I have verified my wiring.
It would also be nice if Rachio had an advance flow meter section where you can manipulate the k factor to help close this gap.
There could be default setting and change this at your own risk setting…
While I understand the hesitation to NOT give access to that i do not agree with it.
Rachio lets get the API going with flume, lets do this soon. Yall are smart and can do this!
This is actually not true. The Everydrop meter (in part by virtue of being Vortex) is NIST traceable to +/-2% of reading. The variability that you see is because the Rachio only samples the meter for the first couple minutes of each zone and simply applies it to the length of time of the whole zone. One thing you can try to get more repeatable readings is to lengthen the pressurization time. (any air in the line will degrade accuracy)
Any Vortex meter (not just Everydrop) is actually more repeatable and accurate than your whole house meter if it is one that a flume can read because that means it is a mechanical meter. Mechanical meters will undercount as they age. (which is kind of good because at least you are not overpaying for water)
I actually perform calibrations on nuclear flow meters gas and liquid both. I did not say the everydrop component itself was not accurate I said the systems as a whole is not. Taking a sample for a few seconds is a piss poor way of taking a measurement. For accuracy you need several measurements and forget about the NIST aspect. Rachio is NOT there for non of it is. You can not have only one component traceable and another not and call it all traceable.
As I outlined here, Rachio provides enough information (zone activation webhook type, including name of zone) to determine over time what specific zone usage is expected and normal. Therefore, differentiation is possible to the degree that the consumers do not overwhelm supply capacity. In that case, meter such as Moen Flo would be able to see the pressure drop and infer accordingly.