“If you’re interested, I’ve made a spreadsheet specifically for using 12 of the Orbit catch cups, which calculates average water inches per hour (to input into “Nozzle inches per hour” in Rachio) and Efficiency. Apparently I can’t upload an Excel file here, but if you PM me your email, I’ll send it to you”
Thnaks for all yore great info!
@rraisley Great stuff posted here, thank you! I don’t see moisture % under my zones. Can you provide a screenshot?
Update: I found an image on another post, my app does not show moisture % under each zone. Version 4.1.13.
Are the zones in a Flex Daily schedule? I believe that is the only place they show. I know they definitely don’t show for a Fixed Schedule.
Thank you! I was only flex monthly, hence why I could not see it. After switching to flex daily it is there.
How can I adjust the zone parameters to make it water the same volume of water over a given period but in shorter, more frequent bursts?
Reduce the Allowed Depletion. That reduces the amount of water applied at one time, which will make it water more frequently. It doesn’t affect anything else, and is easily changed back if desired.
Thanks for this info @rraisley. You’ve done a great job explaining most of what is needed in terms of grass. Although I still falter in some of the calcs when using your examples with grass (this could be because I have not tried the cup measurement just yet and maybe the rotary nozzle of 0.7in is not on par).
Quick example - I live in the PNW and in order for my lawn to get .96" per week in Flex daily I’ve had to set crop coe to 118%. That will put watering that will vary between 0.09 to 0.2 each day. Soil type is sandy loam, some shade, cool season grass with slope being flat.
However I digress - my frustration with the system is I only have one zone for grass (high pressure) and 3 others for drip (low pressure). The drip is made up of Trees/Shrubs/annuals. When I first put this system together with a different controller, I used drippers/emitters to try and regulate the amount of water with a dumb controller (Trees get multiple 1 or 2gal, shrubs got a single 1gal or a couple .5gal, and other ground cover and annuals got a single .5gal).
That controller failed and I needed another and thought I would step into the future…got the R3.
This system is a bit difficult to have a zone that contains all different types of plants and water effectively (Tree/Shrubs/annuals). You get to pick one and it feels as though the premise is to keep these ALL separate (Tree/Shrubs/annuals) because of varying root depths and watering needs. I agree watering deeply for the trees, but if I set the zone for trees, that only waters a few times a month, which will kill off or neglect the others plants (shrubs/annuals) in the same zone.
If I understand correctly, it seems like one would then need 3 different low pressure zones just in one area all running next to each other to keep the plants separate and on different watering schedules. Not to mention the need to run those 3 in each area (Front/Back, other) or have super long pipe runs to stay with that running thought of keeping all same plants in a zone (pipe that goes to only trees; 4 in front and 2 in back and1 to either side of yard)…which doesn’t include a cornucopia of 1/2" to 1/4" irrigation pipe from each zone to deliver said water.
Unless someone out there does all their landscaping with each plant type grouped all in a distinct area it feels like an impossible task to set this up proper or is going to do all that extra pipe work (all that extra pipe I do not think would be feasible).
I believe I might have to come to terms that this system is not for anyone who had a legacy system with low pressure zones with all kinds of plants throughout…OR I am just missing the thought process to setting up the system to water the trees deeply, but still keep the surrounding vegetation watered often enough for their needs.
How would one get this system to work correctly and properly water enough for each?
I’m sure I’m missing the big picture and just need to be schooled on this.
Thanks. And yeah, I’m by far most familiar with grass.
No, I think ALL systems are VERY difficult to work with a zone containing differing plants. It’s not Rachio, or any other system, it’s the fact that it is impossible to water in the most correct way for trees, shrubs, flowers and lawn with the same system. Trees can go weeks or longer without water, but drain water from everything around them. Most shrubs can go a week or more, while some flowers wilt if they don’t receive water every day. Lawns do best watered about twice a week, but even without other crops in the area, soils limit how much water can be applied at once, often requiring watering more often. It can be a royal pain, and one without a simple answer.
Also, as to water needs, I have found that lawns typically require the most water week over week, as more deeply-rooted crops can get more water from the deeper roots. So, most of the time it’s pretty safe to use the lawn to determine watering needs. Shrubs and trees in the same zone won’t need watered as often, but usually won’t be harmed the excessive water. And with large trees in the same area, it’s just often necessary to water more overall, due to the water sucked away by them.
Flowers are a different case, and can require daily water even if the grass doesn’t. And while my best friend waters his lawn twice a day, every day, and swears by it (even though it’s not recommended, his lawn does look good), if you don’t want to do that, an alternative is to water the lawn normally with Flex Daily, and then set a Fixed program to give the same zone (but meant for the flowers) 2-3 minutes of water in the middle of the day, every day. That may not be efficient, but it helps my wife’s butterfly garden survive SC summer sun. And Flex Daily considers that extra water in its calculations for the zone as well.
In a perfect world, we would have all our landscaping planned beforehand, and perfectly, expertly, irrigated for each type of plant, and that would never change. But in the real world of cheap home-builders, less-than-professional irrigation contractors, DIYers who should stick to watching TV and wives who want constant landscaping changes, we’ll all just have to live with this the best we can. Which will always be a compromise.
I apologize if I should start a new thread but it seems you guys will know the answer to this. I’ll keep it brief.
I use Flex Daily. It was explained above that nozzle inches per hour should represent real world output and not factory specs. I have MP Rotators that are spec’d for .4 in/hr. I ran some catch cup tests and found I get .5 in/hr. I did buy 10 catch cups to to the efficiency test but haven’t gotten around to that yet. My question is, it seems that the efficiency must be quite high to have a measured output higher then spec’d (good overlapping coverage). Also, just judging by my eye, the system distributes water very evenly. I had a top notch small business install my system and they did a great job.
In summary, what should I set my efficiency to for now? I had it at 85%.
Sorry, one other thing. You mention above an average root depth of 9.84 inches for summer grass. That’s the highest I’ve seen. I live in Phoenix, have a drought tolerant sod called BOBsod (Bank One Ballpark sod) and my goal is to have a green lawn but conserve water. So, I want deep roots and am using Rachio Thrive.
TIA!
Here are my current settings.
Great that your business did a great job. You mention catch cups, but that you didn’t use them, so how did you calculate your value of 0.5 in/hr? Possibly by meter flow and area?
It is possible your rotators are putting out more water than the spec says, but it wouldn’t be due to efficiency (which can never exceed 100%), but possibly higher pressure or closer spacing than the 0.4 "/hr is based on. The catch cups can give you both flow and efficiency, but IMHO their location during the test is so critical so as to make the results inaccurate. Especially with only 10 cups.
That’s probably not a bad value for a well-installed system. All it does is increase the total water some, to help out areas that get less water. It increases it by 1/(0.4+0.6xEff) or in your case about 10%.
I would ask the suppliers of BOBsod for the values. My Centipede is a summer grass too, but only has 6" root depth and a Crop Coefficient of 85%, so requires less water at once, but more over time, than Rachio’s “Warm Season” Grass.
Here are my current settings.
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Your settings look good to me.
Thanks! I meant I did a small set of tests with 3 tuna cans, two tests, one a half hour then decided to move them again and just did a full hour. The lawn needed to be watered anyway. Came up with .5 inches per hour. I thought of this just as a inches per hour test, as opposed the the DU test.
So, my lawn is about 2,200 sq ft, I’m thinking the package of 10 catch cups should be good enough to determine DU. No? I bought these: https://amzn.to/3x7zvwx
I’ll ask them about the roots.
OK, thank you.
Could you help me understand the “Soil Moisture” graphs on the zones. I’ve set the Allowed Depletion to 35% (I assume this means the depletion will run from 100% down to 65%). However, the soil moisture graph goes down to 23% before it waters. How are soil moisture and allowed depletion related?
My flex daily schedule seems too be watering too much lately, especially Since having a lot of rain. It was set to water 4 times next week. I added up the irrigation and precipitation numbers and it was well over 2-2.5 of water.
My nozzle inches I’ve set at .8 , duration times haven’t been touch but they sit around 25ish mins of run time. It’s as if the soil moisture readings are drying evaporating very quickly even tho my ground is wet, so I looked at crop coefficient and efficiency. When I first started I remember the default for cool season grass being 80% efficient and 70% coefficient (or maybe vice verse). This was for rotor heads.
When I click zone default efficiency is at 70%, and coefficient is 78%. Is this the correct default? When I put the settings on 80/70…I see that it doesn’t water as much. I’ve tried deleting the schedule out, defaulting all the zones and only adjusted the nozzle inches to .8.
They’ll be fine. I just think that placement of cups is critical, at least in my uneven yard, and can get confusing. The more the better, but you can even do multiple tests, like you did with the tuna cans.
It is confusing. You are correct, that 35% Depletion means soil moisture can go from 100% down to 65%. But in looking at the charts and graphs with Rachio Flex Daily, here 0% means it’s down to 0% of the Allowed Depletion value (or is at 65%). So while actual moisture goes from 100% to 65%, indicated moisture on this graph will go from 100% to 0%. It’s done that way by other sources than Rachio, so I guess it’s a standard, but it just makes it confusing.
Did it still show watering to occur after the rain? Just because it /would/ water doesn’t mean it /will/, unless the soil dries out enough.
Those seem reasonable.
The efficiency is based on the average for the type of head. The Crop Coefficient is based on the crop, or grass, type.
The Crop coefficient will vary with the type of grass. Plus, I don’t think some of the categories are specific enough. For example, Warm Season grass results in defaults of 9.84" for Root Depth, and 65% for Crop Coefficient, while my warm season Centipede grass is specified as having 6" root depth and 85" Crop Coefficient. Use the Rachio default, unless you can find more accurate information for your specific grass type.
I believe it ran before the storm, storm came drop .61 of rain and when it was over the soil moisture only went up to 80% whereas I think it should have went back to 100% I then clicked fill because it was looking to irrigate again the next day.
Filling the zone is a good idea when you know better than the controller.
Could you post a Moisture graph and table that shows this?
Got it, thanks. There should be a toggle switch in the app between “irrigation convention” and “common sense” units. Barely any of them make much sense to me.
