In my opinion, the “As needed” schedule creates many more problems than it solves. Set up a separate schedule for each zone? How is that convenient? It seems the only issue with the Flex schedule is that it frequently creates inappropriately long or short watering times for zones where the zone specifications (soil type, hourly watering rate, etc.) are not correctly set up. Adjusting these specifications is a bit complicated. Yet, instead of throwing out the baby with the bathwater, isn’t the only thing that is really needed in Flex an easy way to adjust the watering times for each zone? Flex would be close to perfect if the zone watering times could be adjusted. “As needed” has just way too many problems as mentioned in the other posts.
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To the ppl disappointed with wan schedule, try to keep 1 thing in mind, and this is not making excuses.
Flex by every definition is a scientific model and like all models, is based on variables. Like most models, if any variable’s value is not within particle limits causes the model to collapse and yield wildly inaccurate results.
So the answer is not at straight forward as allowing a user to adjust the run time of a zone in flex as you can no longer properly predict when to apply water.
I’m hoping the fallout of this thread is the realization that the concept of water as needed is an expert feature that can’t be idiot friendly.
My personal recommendation for lowering the barrier of entry to flex is to pay $5, enter your zip + 4 which will provide the soil type from a few of the dbs out there, allow the use to enter their current runtime and square footage. The. You could work backwards to pr algorithmicaly.
I have even seen a few sites that let you draw on a sat image to get square footage.
I persoanally don’t think ppl would mine to pay a small fee for expert mode setup help
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Nice comment @plainsane, just to add my $0.02 the $5 should only be for folks that want support with flex features. Not for the flex features themselves. If I want to play with my own variables on my own time, there shouldn’t be any restrictions on what I can do. I personally enjoy learning about the different factors and how they affect the outcome.
Not sure which site you were mentioning that allows you to discover sq footage by drawing on a map, but I use this one, in case anyone wants to play around.
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Am I correct to understand that once the as-needed schedules are created, that subsequent edits to the zone parameters will NOT adjust the watering durations in that schedule? Basically I have to re-create the schedule if I adjust the zone parameters?
that is what i meant.
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@padresfamily That’s my experience, not sure if that’s how it’s supposed to work. I thought I read that adjusting the crop coefficient would alter As Needed run times but I didn’t observe any changes when I tried.
As a follow on, does Crop Coefficient currently impact Flex run times? This was not configurable prior to 2.5 and I don’t see any changes to my flex schedules when altering the CC.
Please consider this request: The as-needed schedules need the ability to add waterings if the actual ET is higher than the 30-year averages predicted.
Currently I believe ‘as-needed’ sets the schedule based on its ‘guess’ about what the month’s ET will be, then only skips a watering if ET is lower (or precipitation occurs).
Here in Southern California rain is very infrequent, but random heat streaks (and corresponding higher ET) are common at all times of the year. If the schedule for april guessed that watering every 5 days is sufficient, but we have a heat streak that requires more water, the schedule should be able to add a watering to address this situation.
Please confirm if either this already will happen with the current (2.5) programming, or if this feature will be added.
Thanks
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@azdavidr: I don’t think you’re wrong 
This info is great and exactly what I was hoping for! Let me get with @emil and make sure everything looks correct. We’re going to revisit those limits for you (and others) ASAP.
@brad: Good to hear! I’ll look forward to hearing back on your update. Thanks for staying on this!
Dave
What should I do if no weather station, from what I can tell (35756), is reporting precipitation? Get a sensor?
A simple rain sensor will stop any watering immediately (and until the sensor dries out), but the Iro won’t record any precipitation due to the sensor activating. So the total amount watered won’t change unless you have a weather station that reports the precipitation you received.
As a more extreme measure, you could purchase your own personal weather station. Fun! A new gadget!
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@aristobrat Sorry for the confusion on this. The moisture graph is decoupled from what the other schedules are doing, so it’s not a good representation of the decision that Climate Skip will make. I think this is one of the challenges we face with introducing the new schedule model, but leaving flex for those using it.
The water ponding up on your flower/bush zone sounds like a separate issue. How long is your watering on the overwatering zones and what type of nozzle/soil type do you have selected?
@brad, the only time I’ve seen overwatering is using the As Needed schedule on this Front Bed zone, which happened today.
I installed my Iro last Friday and setup this Front Bed zone on its own Flex schedule. Saturday was the first time it got watered, bringing the Flex Moisture Level up from 0% (which I agreed with, that zone hadn’t seen water in weeks) up to I think 100%. Schedule history says it the Flex schedule for it ran 51 minutes to do that. I didn’t notice any floating mulch or water runoff.
The As Needed schedule for this zone (it’s the only zone in this schedule) that ran this morning and overwatered appeared to run in 30 minute cycles, where it watered for 5 minutes and then soaked for 25. It appears to have gotten 6 cycles in before I saw the overwatering and stopped it. So that’s 30 minutes of actual water time?
You mention that the moisture graph is decoupled. Does that mean the Moisture Level % that you see when you click on a zone is incorrect? I walk by this zone anytime I leave my house, and I kind of feel that the reported Moisture Level I saw last night (72%) was pretty close to what I was seeing walking by it. We’re in the process of putting new plants in this zone all week, and digging in it last night, it was a little dry on the top, but pretty moist a few inches down. So I’m not surprised that 30 minutes worth of water added today flooded it out like it did.
Vegetation: shrubs, Soil: clay, Exposure: some shade, Nozzle: fixed spray head, Slope: slight
@padresfamily There’s currently not a plan to add waterings back into an existing schedule. One of the main issues we had with flex was the unpredictable nature of the watering days. That said, we’re taking all of this feedback in and will continue to iterate. I would add that if you are having a heat wave early or late in the year, you can always run a manual watering.
Am I correct to understand that once the as-needed schedules are created, that subsequent edits to the zone parameters will NOT adjust the watering durations in that schedule? Basically I have to re-create the schedule if I adjust the zone parameters?
@padresfamily and @johnny2678 To your earlier questions above, changing zone attributes will not change duration on schedules that have already been made. The problem there is, what if a user creates a schedule, manually changes minutes, then changes a zone characteristic. Do we use what we calculate or do we somehow factor in the changes the user made? Open to suggestions on this.
Changes to zone characteristics can change interval on existing as needed schedules. Crop coefficient is the best way to tweak the intervals. See this article for help:
http://support.rachio.com/article/492-fine-tuning-water-as-needed
Also @padresfamily, crop coefficient did affect flex watering, but was hard coded to plant type. It can now be adjusted for fine tuning of As Needed intervals.
@brad Thank you for the clarifications, and your honesty. (note that I called Rachio support and got different answers than you gave, however I was doubtful - which is why I asked here. You may want to coordinate with your support staff to make sure the answers are the same)
Regarding adding waterings: Unfortunately the comment that there are no plans to allow the unit to automatically add waterings when needed, and the recommendation that I may need to do manual waterings if I am experiencing a heat wave, means definitively that this device (and the direction you are taking development) will no longer be a ‘set it and forget it’ device, which is what I purchased. I didn’t want to have to think about heat waves just like I didn’t want to have to think about turning it off in the rain. I also didn’t want to have to think about how long and often to manually water during a heat wave, or have to guess whether the provided schedule would be sufficient to get me through that heat wave. If I was the type of person that was actually paying attention to that and wanted to manually tweak my irrigation controller, then I wouldn’t need a smart controller. Thankfully Home Depot has a good return policy and Skydrop appears to have the functionality you took away.
Regarding changing zone attributes vs schedules: I suggest that if a user changes attributes in a zone that is already in a schedule, that the app asks the user if they want to override the durations in the schedule or to leave the zone attributes unchanged.
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@aristobrat The moisture graph will not track correctly with As Needed. I wouldn’t recommend using it unless you’re back on flex.
Thanks for sending your zone info! In terms of this zone, I’m going to refer to @emil, our master of landscaping 
At first glance, it seems like you don’t want a shrub with a fixes spray head, especially with clay soil. That’s why you have such long soak times, to allow the clay to absorb so much water.
@brad, I am missing something here - I’ve thought that the BEAUTY of flex was that it had an unpredictable nature, exactly like my weather does. If I want predictability, then setting up a fixed schedule is what I would do. I do understand that many people have watering restrictions, so that makes flex a little trickier, but for the most part from what I’ve been reading on the forums, that seemed to be working relatively well. It just needed some tweaking.
And recommending that I pay attention during a heat wave and run a manual watering is totally unreasonable. If I’m traveling, I’m supposed to be checking my RACHIO data every day (with no moisture graph so I can’t see what was happening) and the weather back home to guess if I need to manually water? That makes totally no sense at all. Flex while not perfect, at least is pretty much a set it and let it run.
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[quote=“padresfamily, post:57, topic:3505”]@brad@padresfamily
I didn’t want to have to think about heat waves just like I didn’t want to have to think about turning it off in the rain.
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A big +1 on this. In Arizona we can get 10+ day stretches that are above 110C, which tend to scorch things. The problem is that this brutal 110C-and-above streak might happen at the beginning of June, early August, sometime in between, all of the above, or not at all! Although I am a big fan of using historical data as in order to set the monthly trends, using local data to make automatic adjustments is important!
[quote=“padresfamily, post:57, topic:3505”]@brad@padresfamily
Regarding changing zone attributes vs schedules: I suggest that if a user changes attributes in a zone that is already in a schedule, that the app asks the user if they want to override the durations in the schedule or to leave the zone attributes unchanged.
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Another +1. Show the newly calculated duration, then let the user decide which way he wants to go!
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I think you mean 110F, 110 C would definitely “scorch things” 
. I am also a in Arizona and will echo your comment, summers are hot, but we do also get monsoons along with heavy downpours intermixed with the heat in Aug, Sep, Oct time frame. Monsoons tend to hit late afternoon, so if the controller looks early in the morning and sees a forecast of 90+ it may still water, and then will get hit with an inch of rain in the afternoon. Flex seems better equipped to handle these types of issues.
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I did mean 110F ! I use Celsius at work daily, so it’s too easy to type. Agreed on Monsoon season. Are you using Flex in AZ ? I’m curious as to what your watering intervals and duration are for trees and shrubs if you don’t mind sharing?